Renown rank skills system

[Markydono]

i had a discussion with friends who are veterans since beta. Because this server will run old rvr system, city siege, and max rank will be 80, we wondered about the renown points system.

For old rvr system to work better i think we need old renown point system also. For example such abilities like Trivial Blows. Now you could just out dps it with WF/DF procs, but with mostly all running Conqueror, Invader, Warlord, Dark Promise and Tyrant, players will be very hard to kill.

Example: DoK/WP on full Sovereign with armor talis and TB, will not ever be killed by 1 Warpforged dps.
Thus, DoK/WP can tank 3 or more dps with sovereign or lower gear without any support, and never getting health below 50%

So either make old renown point system or remove Trivial Blows from new system so it cannot be specced.

Discussion is adivsed from community.

[Sizer]

Its tough to say, TB came out pre rr100 gear and i thought that was one of the most balanced times in the entire game. Its like edge stone, when it came out people whined that nothing would ever die again but all it did was make it harder for mdps to kill things in the duration of a kd by themselves and people had to assist more.

If anything rebalance some of the figures, for example make max TB give 35% crit reduction but also cost less renown points to get.

It would be tough to balance them all but the old system was terrible and itd be worth the time to go through it all.

Otherwise all classes crit damage needs rebalancing. Who wants to fight bws that can boiling blood you for 3.5k and theres nothing you can do about it if you dont get an insta cleanse. And ofc wp/dok nerfs would go hand in hand with that so things still die and cloth healers become necessary.

So clearly if one thing changes a lot would change. Id like to play war after the official servers die but id love it even more if all the 'good' groups didnt consist of 2 wps, 2 slayers and 2 knights while anyone who picks different classes is a bad player.

[gamer130887]

Its tough to say, TB came out pre rr100 gear and i thought that was one of the most balanced times in the entire game. Its like edge stone, when it came out people whined that nothing would ever die again but all it did was make it harder for mdps to kill things in the duration of a kd by themselves and people had to assist more.

If anything rebalance some of the figures, for example make max TB give 35% crit reduction but also cost less renown points to get.

It would be tough to balance them all but the old system was terrible and itd be worth the time to go through it all.

When the rr80 will be fixed on server TB will be very expensive for increase your stat points so depend on players because atm with rr100 and toons full TB and stone it's really cheated that why we fixe max rr80 and delete edge of stone .

[Chaoself]

nah, remove TB totally so players will win due skill and not due pasive renown skills. like old days

[Telen]

TB was added to counter the career mechanic of the bw/sorc as it was getting out of control with the crit renown, bugged lotd talis and higher gear. Having a crit rate of higher than 100%.

bw/sorc would benefit more than any class with the removal of TB.

Maybe it should as the dominance of melee trains is partly due to this.

[vahrokh]

BWs and sorcs used to be very OP then they got a series of nerfs till the modern days, where rolling one is almost a sympthom of being a bad player.

Imo what made them OP (and got nerfed) was the ability to stack their AoE, form bomb warbands and so on.

What gutted them, instead was not one or two but a plethora of cheesy cloaks, RR abilities and so on and on that all would insta-cleanse their damage. The average player has just to bring 3-4 of these items with him to never die to any caster (including Magus and Engies).

If RR abilities are to stay (and thus trivial blows and also the RR cleanse + heal up), then the super-abundance of other items should go.

Or, more fairly, likewise BWs and sorcs got nerfed in their ability to stack, so should the healers able to cleanse them. I.e. if healer 1 cleansed a guy, then healer 2 should not be able to, for 10 seconds or so.

I'd really love to stop seeing the only "skill-premades" being 2 MDPS (pref slayer(s)), always the same 2 healers, always the same 2 tanks.

[Markydono]

¨Well yes Sorc/BW SW/SH would benefit most from removing TB, but so will they too lose a lot of survivability. Basically they will get klled fast by meleetrain, a lot faster than now.

These classes will be most dangerous when they hide behind blobs. But you all forget that all dps output will be lower because gear is lower rank. LotD staffs will be dangerous for casters, but necessary.

All classes will still benefit from this. And now you have to show a lot more skill to kill something and not get killed.

[Idrinth]

At RR80 4 points for TB is a pretty high investment to help against all dps-classes with increased crit damage. If someone takes that an therefore skips other renown, that would still be fine.

BW, he large problem of sorcs&bws was the endless soul essence/fury on dok+wp, something that the devs should be able to fix at some point. Not that important for now, since it'll only kick in at RR70+, so they still have a while to take care of it

[anadim]

I think present rr training is fime. Dont forget there will be no +180wounds from rr100 tactic. There will be 20rr points missing as well. It wont be a problem to meet someone with TB, as it will be harder t ospecc all defensive abilities and still be a lethal at the same time.
+ what others said - no Edge stone. End of time when u throw wounds talismans away due to cap from other sources.

[Markydono]

I think present rr training is fime. Dont forget there will be no +180wounds from rr100 tactic. There will be 20rr points missing as well. It wont be a problem to meet someone with TB, as it will be harder t ospecc all defensive abilities and still be a lethal at the same time.
+ what others said - no Edge stone. End of time when u throw wounds talismans away due to cap from other sources.

Believe me, when i roll WP/dok and run him with DP/Tyrant/sov. Without support, there is gotta be more than 5 dps hitting me if theyre not equally geared to even pressure me. And i mean tanking them, not kiting.